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The 66 World Cup winner on Alf Ramsey’s tanning rules, playing first-class cricket and being tripped up by a strange presence Hello Geoff. Hello Small Talk. Let’s crack on shall we? Does winning the World Cup feel like yesterday or does it feel like 44 years ago? It’s both. Because of the nature of people reminding you about the day, not only every four years, but people still talk about it on a daily basis. It really brings it home how significant and important a national occasion it is and how the support of the country is behind that. The players will be aware that there’s public support, but they will never really be aware how much support and feeling there is in the country until they actually go and win it. Nobody can tell them apart from myself and twenty-one other guys who played. Indeed. An old opponent of yours, Franz Beckenbauer, has had a few things to say about England. Do you think he’s right or do you just think he’s starting the mind games? I never felt it appropriate for any level of football, where a manager is talking disparagingly about another team. If we get through and we play Germany that will be the most motivating speech they can give to the team. Small Talk spoke to George Cohen a while ago, he thought the Argentina team you played that tournament were the best team you faced throughout it … I wouldn’t necessarily say the best. They were the toughest. I think the three teams we played in the quarters, semi and final were terrific sides. I mean the Portugal side in the semi-final was fantastic and with Eusebio scoring eight or nine goals in the tournament arguably one of the best players that’s played up front in any year of football. And that German side was a terrific team, they were going on to win the European Championship in ’72 and the World Cup in ’74. I would put them very close together. Certainly in terms of the tough game, really tough physical game, Argentina sticks out way above the others. Are the rumours true about it all kicking off a bit in the tunnel afterwards? Yes that’s very true. It was kept quiet. It was obviously a very physical match on and off the field. Controversial incidents with the captain being sent off. As it was in those days, it was much easier to keep things quiet. It would be impossible to keep things quiet today because of the huge media coverage. You then played against one of the greatest teams of all time, that Brazil team in Mexico … Arguably the greatest Brazilian side that won a world cup. Quite. Can you remember that game well? I remember the game for a number of things. For one you’re playing against one of the greatest sides ever. We were as strong if not stronger at the time but we were that close with the result in the match playing in their backyard under their conditions, in their heat. If you analyse the game we were fantastic and should have at least drawn or possibly won. A couple of misses and also the performance of Bobby Moore who arguably was better in ’70 than he was in ’66 if that’s possible. Bearing in mind he’d been locked up under house arrest only three days before the tournament. There were a couple of misses. Everybody remembers Jeff Astle’s horrible miss towards the end. Were you on the pitch when that happened? I was and people relive that moment saying it was me who missed it but I do remember it. I love looking at that film today and realising what a good side we had, the bulk had been together since ’66, the backbone of the side was there. In ’68 we were close in the European Championships but ’70 we looked like we were going to go there and play in the final again. I read in Alf Ramsey’s biography recently that he had one of his coaches blowing his whistle every 10 minutes so you wouldn’t get too much sun when you were in Brazil? Yes that’s absolutely true. Five minutes on your front, five minutes on your back, five minutes in the pool. The discipline was very strict. On the floor we were on in the hotel, you’d have either Alf or Les Cocker sitting outside the door of the lift to check on people’s whereabouts. Sounds harsh. How late would you they be there till? Probably midnight. Very few people would be late. It’s how it should be. Now, just away from football you also played a single game of county cricket for Essex … That’s correct. In 1962. Essex v Lancashire in a district of Liverpool, which was interesting. West Ham went away on tour to Ghana that year but because I was split between the two sports at that stage I decided to stay behind and got an opportunity to play one first-class game. Did you have real hopes of making a go of the cricket? Well yes I did. The big downfall for me was trying to do two. Looking back, like in anything in life you have to focus on something 100%. I wasn’t. All my life I played cricket in the summer and football in the winter, it was how I was brought up. In many respects it was the end of an era for me. Prior to that you could probably do the two. When you hear now of Dennis Compton, William Watson and many other players who played cricket for England and football for England. You look at it today and think how did anybody play those sports? What was your strongest suit? I’ve read that you were a very good fielder. I was a good fielder because I had the hand-eye coordination. Primarily I was a batsman and we didn’t have a wicketkeeper in Essex’s second team so I kept wicket a fair bit. And then I had the opportunity when there were a couple of injuries to play in that game against Lancashire, which we won. Do you think England will ever win another World Cup or do they have they to change all the coaching and everything like Trevor Booking has suggested? Yes we can win the World Cup. But certainly there is a concern from Trevor quite rightly and the current situation clearly illustrates that with the strength of the squad. We’re not producing enough international players of the Wayne Rooneys and Steven Gerrards. It’s quite clear that the system we have isn’t working. The system we had in my day which was pretty simplistic. You kick the ball in the road, the streets, the playground till you were 15, you played for your schools a bit maybe for the county. The people in charge were not coaching – they were probably a PE teacher who’s second subject was art. And that system produced some of the greatest players at that time and any other time. When we do get a good player like Joe Cole they get wasted because we don’t trust the more skilful player. Do you think that’s a problem with English football? Glenn Hoddle is an outstanding example of that in the game Had he been in another country he would have got 150 caps. Whatever the coaching is, it can try and replicate what happened in our time to an extent. Let the guys play, let them enjoy, let them have some freedom. We should be producing more street players like Wayne Rooney shouldn’t we … You also get your players, currently Frank Lampard, who’s not quite as gifted but appears he has a fantastic attitude. Makes the most of what he’s got … ‘Makes the most of’ is probably unfair, he’s made himself into great player. Bobby Moore probably wasn’t as gifted as many people think when he joined the club but he made himself into one of the great players by the other attributes you need as a great player, your attitude, determination, learning, leadership. You mentioned Harry Redknapp before. You played with him at West Ham. Wasn’t he a speedy winger … I think that was about it. With very skinny legs … Yeah he was quite a lean individual. Very quick and very fit and could run all day. Unfortunately he had to pack-up from injury very quickly. Do you believe in God? That is quite a difficult question to answer. That’s a fairly serious question. I don’t think that’s a silly question. I need time to think about it, is my answer to that. What about extra-terrestrial life? No. You don’t think anything’s out there, the universe is empty? Eh? er, yes. What about ghosts then? Have you ever seen one? No. Have you ever felt or sensed a presence? Yes. Last Sunday. This is a serious answer. When I tripped over my suitcase and banged my head and had four stitches in it. I sensed that when I tripped over the suitcase something was holding my leg in the suitcase. And was it? Normally when you trip, you know, you recover and stumble over something like a suitcase. Really? This was in the hotel? In the hotel in South Africa. And that’s an honest, genuine answer. Small Talk likes honest, genuine answers. How was the South African healthcare? Fine, fine, very good. We were looked after. The security guys who look after a lot of people, one of the roles seemed to be that they ensured that if anything did happen to us, physically, not by a terrorist, but a simple little trip, they were there to look after us. So they took me to a clinic, had a tetanus injection, antibiotics, painkillers and they got me a hat to wear. Have you still got a headache? No it was OK. I think it just caught the corner of the table. It was a big enough gash to have four stitches. My wife still doesn’t believe that I wasn’t drunk … She actually didn’t say that. And after I did it I couldn’t believe how stupid it was to do that and I was cursing like mad. What have you got in your pockets? A handkerchief. Always carry a handkerchief? Mostly. What was the favourite toy you played with as a child? A football. Always the football? Yeah. And if you could describe in one sentence what it was like in Essex in the 1950s … My first answer would be it’s impossible to answer. Eh? How is it different then? The most noticeable change is the amount of cars on the roads now. Now there’s a line of cars outside all the houses. I’m giving you a two pound coin in the petrol station and you can go in and buy any chocolate bar you want, what’s it going to be? Kit-Kat. The chunky or the four finger? Four finger. I can share that with my wife. Exactly. Does she get one finger or two? It’s two mostly, but occasionally she doesn’t fancy too much so she’ll have one and I’ll have the three. But I do like the chunky one as well. Who doesn’t? Thanks Geoff. Goodbye … Bye Small Talk. World Cup 2010 England Barney Ronay guardian.co.uk

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Sir Geoff Hurst | Small Talk